Leaders’ debate live: Albanese targets cost of nuclear as Dutton sidesteps questions on public service cuts | Australian election 2025
Key events
Albanese says the cost of not acting on climate change ‘severe’
Answering the same question, Anthony Albanese said “the science is very clear” on climate change.
It doesn’t mean that every single weather event is because of climate change. It does mean the science told us the events would be more extreme and they’d be more frequent. That is what we are seeing playing out. Whether it be increased bushfires, flooding, extreme weather events that are having an impact.
The PM said that these increasing weather events are “one of the costs” to the economy by not acting on climate change.
[The costs of] not being a part of the global solution are severe.
Dutton questioned on his views on climate change
Peter Dutton is asked if he accepts we are already seeing the impact of climate change?
The opposition leader said “there’s an impact” but the question is “what we can do about it as a population of 27 million people.”
We should be good corporate citizens, good international neighbours. But at the moment China is building two coal fire power stations a week. India obviously is burning a lot of fossil fuel.
Pressed on the question, Dutton said “I don’t know because I’m not a scientist.”
I can’t tell you whether the temperature has risen in Thargomindah because of climate change … I think the honest answer for people is they don’t know and scientists can provide advice.
When will bills come down?
Anthony Albanese has been asked when energy bills will come down?
He pointed to Labor’s renewables plan, and honed in on gas:
Peter raised gas. Gas is $13, it was $30 when we came to office. $13 is cheaper than $30.
As for when bills will come down, the PM said that “what we need do is to roll out renewables.”
Make sure there’s energy security, make sure it’s backed up by batteries, by hydro and by gas. That’s what all the private sector is backing and investing in. Not using taxpayers’ money to fund something that they never put forward the entire time they were in office.
Would Coalition government override local communities and state governments on nuclear?
If local communities and farmers say no, and state governments say no, to nuclear, what happens? Would a Coalition government override them?
Peter Dutton said the “Commonwealth has powers [and] we can exercise those powers if need be.”
We can work with the state governments. In South Australia, the South Australian premier has been very clear of his support for nuclear. There’s many figures in the union movement and in the Labor Party have as well.
Dutton said the Coalition would “work to find consensus.”
If we can’t find consensus, we will do what’s in country’s best interest.
Anthony Albanese chimed in and said even the private sector wouldn’t support nuclear:
Every single state and territory government, none will support it … That is not what is important. The most important thing is, the private sector won’t back it.
Staying with nuclear, Anthony Albanese picked up on Peter Dutton’s reference to other countries who have implemented nuclear, and said they “wish” they had the natural resources Australia does.
What Keir Starmer has to deal with is the blow out in the costs of the Hinkley nuclear plant. It is now up to $90bn for one plant. It is coming in 14 years late and being built in a country that has a nuclear industry, by the world’s largest nuclear energy company, in France.
That shows exactly the problem and Keir Starmer wishes, as do so many people, that they had the access with the solar resources, with the wind resources, with the space that we have here in Australia, to have renewables backed by gas, backed by hydro and backed by batteries. That’s the future.
What do the leaders want to be remembered for?
The prime minister was asked what is one big change he would like to be remembered for? Anthony Albanese pointed to affordable childcare, and said:
We want the universal provision of affordable childcare so that it is as natural to have your child have access to childcare as it is to have access to a public school.
Peter Dutton was asked the same question, and pointed to creating an east coast gas reserve, and then went to nuclear:
We go beyond [gas], as you know, to deal with what firms up the renewables as we go forward, which is a vision that Bob Hawke had for our country, John Howard shared and I strongly believe in, a zero emissions nuclear technology, embraced by the Labour party in the United Kingdom, by the French, by many countries.
Albanese warns of cuts under Coalition to fund nuclear reactors
Anthony Albanese then interjected on this topic:
That is before they get to the $600bn they need for their nuclear reactors … ‘Vote for me, trust us, we will tell you after the election.’
Last time the cuts came to health, education, $50bn out of hospitals, $30bn out of schools. That is why a decade later, we’re still trying to fix and repair the damage that was done by that 2014 budget.
Dutton sidesteps questions on which area of the public service he would cut
Peter Dutton was asked if the Coalition’s cuts to the public service are going to cover all its spending in this election? He said the “short answer is no”.
We won’t achieve all of the savings we need to achieve through our changes to the public service.
Asked to outline one area of the public service he would cut, Dutton did not answer the question directly but said:
There’s been a three-fold increase in the expansion of the public service compared to the Rudd-Gillard years. We have the highest per capita rate of public servants in the world, and our argument is if you have families working second, third jobs, working their guts out, paying tax, I want to make sure the taxpayer dollar is spent efficiently. My argument is that where you balloon the public service in Canberra, that is not an efficient use of taxpayer money.
He was pushed to answer directly, and said:
Where we find inefficiency. It’s not something you can do from opposition to redesign the public service, it’s not the way that works.
Opposition leader Peter Dutton during the leaders' debate. Photograph: ABC/AAP
PM defends the fact energy rebates aren’t means tested
Anthony Albanese was asked about the energy rebates Labor is promising, and why these aren’t means tested? He responded:
Because of the way it is delivered through the energy companies, you either give it to everyone or just to concession card holders. We understand a whole lot of working people need that assistance in cost of living. That is why this is our third increase in energy rebates that we’ve put forward, that’s why we have done it.
Would the leaders support longer rental agreements?
Asked if he would be willing to give renters certainty with longer rentals, Peter Dutton said this was an issue for the states.
I’m happy to support sensible reforms. As you pointed out, it’s for the states. The focus on this election who is better to fix the housing crisis this government created.
Would Anthony Albanese put pressure on the states to give renters more certainty? He responded:
We delivered a renters’ rights program in agreement with states and territories that improved the rights of people renting and, in addition, increased maximum rental assistance by 45% in this term.
He took aim at the Coalition’s super for housing policy and said this “does nothing for supply” and would “bid up prices as it did in New Zealand”.
Peter Dutton (right) speaks during the debate as Anthony Albanese looks on. Photograph: ABC/AAP
